143 | Leading with purpose, curiosity, empathy and the drive to empower

Jon Busby: So welcome to another episode of the Tech Marketing podcast. I'm very pleased to be joined in the virtual recording booth by, uh, an old, I'm gonna say an old colleague, an old client, uh, customer of ours, uh, Brad Spikes. That's fair. We met when you back at, when you were back at Intuit. Actually, Brad, uh, wasn't it, but you've had an incredibly varied career since then.

So welcome to the Tech Marketing podcast, Brad.

Brad Spikes: Thanks for having me, John. Excited to catch back up with you. It's, it's good to reconnect.

Jon Busby: So you are the VP of strategic, I'm gonna try and get this right, the VP of Strategic Ventures and Marketing at Northwest Center at the moment, aren't you? Um, like, before we dive into your incredibly varied career, like why don't you tell me a little bit about what your current role involves, um, and how you've, how you've ended up here.

Brad Spikes: You bet. Yeah. So, so the marketing part's probably easier to explain. I think it's the pause everybody has on those strategic ventures and, and what the heck that means. Um, but so the, the big, the big picture of it all is, uh, I work for Northwest Center, um, which is a nonprofit and it's all about, um, everything.

Um, there is about. Supporting, um, children and adults with disabilities. Um, so programs from Cradle through career, which is just something, you know, on a personal note, like really resonates with me and a great opportunity to give back. But it was, when I first started there, one of the questions was I had was, how the heck do I fit in?

How does my tech background fit into a place like this? And so what's unique about, um. While you have this umbrella nonprofit underneath, there are five, um, social enterprises, um, which are profit generating businesses where all of the profits and literally all the profits go back to funding the mission.

And so my role there is about, you know, leaning in from a strategic venture standpoint and standing up these net new businesses, building an e-commerce platform for a. Printing company. Never thought I'd be working on a printing company when you talk about my career. But bringing it, um, forward and really thinking about how that comes to life along with some other businesses as well.

So that's the venture side of it. And the, the marketing piece is, is more obvious, but really thinking about, um, marketing, um, end to end. Um, it's, it's a small company, but a mighty company, so you get to wear a lot of hats, which is, which is exciting. And I get to lean into a lot of my past experiences and at the same time get to continue to learn and grow and build new ones.

Jon Busby: So, as I mentioned, Brad, we met back at Intuit. Um, but you've had quite a varied career to, to get there. Um, and in this episode we, as we were prepping for it and throwing things back and forth like we're used, we, we've talked a lot about KPIs and metrics and how you, uh, talk things up to the board. Uh, in the last, over the last year, what we haven't really talked about much is something that we think is gonna come back into marketing, which is empathy.

Um, and how you essentially build a team to adapt yourself and your team to, to deal with that uncertainty. So like, jumping into your career for a moment, you've had a great journey. Where did you, where did you start? Um, and like, when was the moment when you kind of fell into marketing?

Brad Spikes: You know, so jogging my memory here a little bit.

When, when I first started and, and I'd moved to, um, the Dallas-Fort Worth area from college, and, and that was, I'd love to tell you, I was like, oh, yeah. Because I knew exactly what I was gonna do with my career. I'm not sure I still have that part figured out, but what it really was is. Chasing a lot of, um, buddies and friends from college that had all ended up in that area.

And I wanted to be there too. And I was very fortunate to, to land a role at Nokia, uh, which is a, a global company. And, you know, and at that point, you know, it was heads and tails above everyone else. This is, you know, predated the iPhone. And so it was, it was a very recognizable brand. And. My, my role there was more on the, the it and project management side of things.

My undergrad was in marketing, but I'd stuck around and got my graduate work, um, in information systems. 'cause there was so much of the.com boom and everything was going on. And then I'd love text since I was a kiddo and my dad had ingrained that in me. So anyhow, that's where I had started and that role was probably way too much.

Um, tech heavy for me, but I learned a ton. Like I learned a ton about process management, you know, more on the, the project side of things. And then roles start or opportunities started coming since everything was project based around like enterprise collaboration. And so that was kind of, you know, it was.

There, there social media kind of just starting on like more of the B2C side. But on the B2B side, I, I was just blown away by like what you could do, like the opportunity, especially at a large company like Nokia, you know, you have 50,000 plus folks and the, the idea of being global and like connecting everyone and so I just, I really started gravitating towards projects like that.

And then with that, one of the projects that had come about was I. You know, there's so much interesting, um, tech in all of these phones and a company that size, you know, 'cause everybody has like their own little pockets that they're working in. Somebody somewhere knows how to solve it, but it was just a matter of finding them in a company that size.

And so I, I'd had the idea with some of my buddies that I pitched 'em that were more on the developer track. Of like, how do we build like a, um, you know, a, a knowledge, you know, um, source or tool, whatever you wanted to call it at the day that was more social and collaborative in the way that you could share your knowledge, you know, earn, you know, um, points for the knowledge bubble up, et cetera, et cetera.

I mean, you kind of know how this goes. Um, but, um. Through that I started partnering a lot more with the marketing side, um, uh, of the fence. And we got into, like, they would invite me to come and do demos at, um, a lot of the different big tech conferences, the CSS and the CTIA. I'm dating myself with that one because that one's not around anymore, but, um, but CES is still alive and well.

So I started working really closely with a lot of those folks and was very blessed to get an opportunity to lead social. Took my young family. I had a 1-year-old and a 4-year-old at the time, and, and my wife, um, out to California in the Bay Area. I mean, I was stoked, kind of techie, right? So like being kind of in the mecca of all that and working there, but that, that's where I, I got kind of my, my first real gig, if you will, in, in, in marketing, um, um, with Nokia.

Jon Busby: The, um, the, because, and we were talking about this in the, in the pre-call. Uh, Brad, like that was when social influencer marketing wasn't really called social influencer marketing. Like did it, did it have that ti Like what? For, for all of our listeners benefit, what year are we talking about here?

Brad Spikes: Let's see, we are, we, this is about 2012.

2012, 2013.

Jon Busby: Yeah. So we're talking like very early doors in like influencer marketing was just coming out. There wasn't really an Instagram. Facebook had only been around what, 4, 5, 6 years maximum. Um, Twitter had only been around since what, 2008? Only been around four like this. Very early, early doors with, with some of these new tech, new techniques.

Um, like what was, when you, when you look back at it, did it feel. At the time, or did it just feel natural, like, oh, this is just the, this, this, we, we just need to be working on this? Like, people are interacting on these platforms now. Like how, how did it feel, Brad? Well, we were

Brad Spikes: fortunate at the global level.

I mean, we had a, a, some very strong leaders there that were, that were very, I. Well established and, and knew what they, they wanted to do. And it, it was very much a, you know, a hub and spoke model between like, you know, the global and the, and the different regions, um, where, where you kind of, you know, carried through with things that were more bespoke to, to your audience and your area, et cetera.

But like you said, these were very early days with things like Facebook's a really good examples. Like, I mean, you didn't.

Facebook. At that point we were just starting. So I mean you had this global presence and like everybody was up, uh, you know, following, you know, said brand under like the global brand, but it was just starting to where you could partition off and be like, okay, here's the Nokia US at the time of that. So there was definitely still like, you know, so much learnings and process and how you do it influencer side.

We thought much more. We as a company at the time when I had come into it and taken over some things around product placement, um, was much more of like, how do you get this in someone's hands? How do you get it to where then they will like, you know, share it out, talk about it, et cetera, but not with a real deep understanding of like, who is actually like using the phones.

And I, and I don't discount like. Definitely from a brand awareness standpoint, like I, I think that was, was very important. But at the same time too, to be completely transparent, I, we were hemorrhaging money. Like we're trying to survive at this point now, like now things like the iPhone are around, right?

And you're trying to get folks to, to use your different products and services and, um, you know, um. To try and get the windows phone stored to where it needed to be to compete with iOS and Android. I mean, we were definitely like, you know, a third leg of the stool that was wobbly at best. And so you're, you're fighting like mad to, to try and get your place at the table.

And what we were learning, because we were hemorrhaging money and like everything was accounted for. Being really data driven and like articulating the need and like the, the what ROI looked like was so important to like speaking to your leadership. You know, they're constantly asking, it was a really tough thing to say, like, oh, well we got this phone in Carly Ra, Jin's Hands and you know, it's on her next video.

But like, really accounting that back. And there were models that you could bring it back, but it was like. Attributing that to sales was much more difficult. Right. And so what we started really looking into from an audience led perspective is like, oh my gosh. Um, it looks like, um, young moms as an example.

Or you had dads were actually the ones that were more interested in the device and the, you know, the value prop that we were offering. And so we started spending a lot more time, like in those early days, like the micro influencer side of things. Like, oh my gosh, like, let's get on like a mommy blogger, um, you know, um.

But what did they call it back then? Um, this is, um, uh, 'cause we had these on, on Twitter. I'm forgetting the name of 'em, John, maybe you remember. But it's when they, they'd hold like the, it was kind of like a, um, a group chat. It almost, it felt like a, a Reddit, like a MA, but that's not what it was. Um, where you would just, like, everybody would get on there from, you know, the, this mommy, um, group.

Through the mommy BL network of the, of this agency and they'd all get there and talk about things. Then, you know, they'd give away a device and do all those types of things. But it was much easier then to provide links to like an At&t store or something. And like, so you started getting some level of attribution for the work that you were doing.

And so that's kind of where that stuff was starting to evolve. And we were spending more time, um, pivoting a lot of that spend because. If you owned the social channel and then you had the influencer side of it too, that marriage between two Global You things where. Okay. There's a big hit movie out. Um, and it's, there's the global partnership where you're getting the placements and some of that larger media spin, but then like, how do you actually connect that with, um, what's going on with like a US audience?

And so then we would, I'd partner really closely with the, the folks on the global side that were doing those partnerships. Wonderful guy. Um, and he would then be like, okay, well let's negotiate into the. This much content for Facebook, this much content for Twitter, and then we would execute that on the paid on our side and kind of connect the dots.

And so that was in a place where you didn't have a ton of dollars to spend, but um, you, you kind of like leaned into the, you know, the, the idea of working globally that worked. But,

Jon Busby: but I think this is, this is, this is really what I'm trying to try to get at here because this is, this is the problem all of us have in our different organizations, right?

Which is you. I have a, I have a phrase I iPhone news on my team, like, don't let your job title define your influence. But in this case, and we're talking about influencers, you know, you went outside of your stream, outside of your job title, you know, you, you found different, uh, emerging approaches or trends that you want to take advantage of, like partnering on a big, for a big film, and you found the people responsible.

Like, what, what was the. What's the secret source to make that happen? Like what is the, what is the way that you approach that to, to ensure that you are not just staying in your lane and that you are constantly finding ways of growing your own, your own role, if you will?

Brad Spikes: That's a good question. I mean, I think at the end of the day for me, what's, what's always been.

The secret sausage you put it is, you know, a lot of times you just don't know what you don't know, but, but if you treat people with kindness and respect and like have that open like collaborative mindset and really think like what does success look like for them? And then what does success look like for me?

And find a way to meet in the middle on something like that. People are just. Generally, at the end of the day, like I, I really believe like pe people want, and if you assume the best of intentions, they wanna work together. But you just have to find that happy medium that, you know, benefits all versus the, Hey, I need this, or, you know, you know how you respond when somebody actually towards you that way, John.

So it was like, I, I always felt in those situations where I. I wasn't really fully versed, you know, and, and had the background skillset to do X, y, or Z. If I was able to connect on, you know, a personal and professional level first and like really understand like where their pain points are, what I was trying to achieve, how we could work together, that's just kind of been part of the career narrative, um, that, that's always helped me.

Jon Busby: Um, so, you know, you kind of mentioned something there that I wanna drill into, like, you know, how you connecting with others and kind of helping, essentially enabling them to succeed, I think is the phrase that, the phrase we wanna use here. So like when did you first kind of notice that was a core motivator for you, Brad?

Like, how has that, how has that shaped how you lead? Yeah,

Brad Spikes: so I think that was, that was very early on. I mean, I've been that way. Since I was a kid. Um, and then, but then I would say like professionally, um, probably, um, early on in my career at Nokia, like when I was even still like on starting out on the IT side, you know, and you're helping somebody solve a problem and just you would see just, oh my gosh, just the gratitude that came in.

Something like that, right? Like, you know, like, wow, they, they were able to help me solve this. And then you get to it over even more on the.

When you're able to help somebody else be successful, and I've always said this kind like phrase that's resonated with me, where it's like the ability of me to do my job directly impacting the ability of someone else to do theirs, like that just kind of became part of my core professional DNA and like any 'cause I was always just so curious and trying different jobs and learning new skills and if you win at it with that type of approach, so many more doors open to, to learn more new things with folks.

Jon Busby: Yeah, I, I think I'm, I'm with you. Like, it's, for me, it's always having that curiosity, um, at, at the heart of things. Um, so talking about kind of how you, how you approached that Brad, like, let's move on from kind of, I. Some of the fast moving roles that you are in to, to, you said, we were talking about Nokia into, when you made that jump into Intuit, like what was your, when we met you were part of the developer ecosystem, if that's correct.

Like what, what were you doing there and how did it, um, like what was the change you went through? Uh, as, as you went move between those different roles?

Brad Spikes: Well, yeah. And so to give context on this one too, so, um, Nokia with what was happening there, then there was the, the acquisition, um, from Microsoft, right?

And it was one of those where I was fortunate enough to have a job, but I'm like, man, I. Microsoft love that company, but it's huge. I'll, I don't think I'll ever work somewhere larger than, um, Nokia. Right. Um, I was, I was ready for a change living in the Bay Area and that when, um, all. That's when the opportunity with Intuit came up.

And I, I think the, the, the biggest difference for me is, again, at Nokia you wore so many different hats because again, you know, we're, we're relied on resources, we're relied on funds. Like how do you get this done? It was super scrappy. And then you go into an environment at Intuit where I was leading, um, the, the developer marketing for like QuickBooks Online.

It was just coming online or had recently come. And you're really enabling the success of other small business developers and, and pushing them to develop on the, the QuickBooks online. Platform and, um, you know, create, we called it their app store. They were really service integrations to QuickBooks Online.

Um, but I, I think the biggest thing there that was eye-opening for me after being so much more on the, the B2C side, working with developers towards the end of my career at Nokia is here is it was very much an engineering led. Um, and not that Microsoft wasn't, but like, and Nokia too to a certain extent, but you were used to being around a lot more like primarily marketing folks, right?

That then worked with these different back office and functions and, you know, engineering orgs, et cetera. And so, but here, um, it was like they didn't even have a CMS on the website. You were working with the engineering teams to like make updates on there, which was, you know, around. Everybody had the best of intentions.

We were super excited about where we were going. We're growing like mad. But then this is a company that while still really large, is about 10,000 people ish. Fact, check me on this one offline and make sure, but I felt like that was around the number and so much smaller in that sense, but still, um, large.

So you still had a lot of the resources available to you, but it, it was scrappy in that sense and I, and I really liked it from, from that standpoint. But hopefully that's getting to, to what you're asking. I may be going off on a bit of a tangent here.

Jon Busby: No, no, no. We went, we, we developer the, the whole space of kind of, you know, you, you talked about.

Helping others succeed. You know, I, I might have jumped at it when I said curiosity there as well. Um, like these are really important things when it comes to communicating to develop like a technical audience. 'cause ultimately the technical audience, you know, especially with what we were working together on a, an intuit, um, you know, that was all about how do we help this, this group of, um, technical people.

Build the best and market the best business. Like I actually, I dunno if I told you this story before Brad, but I remember sitting down with one of the, um, one of the developers at a QuickBooks Connect event, and this must have been like 12 years ago. This is a long time ago now. Um, and he was telling me like all the wonderful things his app does, uh, and he was like, yeah, we do.

And he was, he was using these terms. That meant a lot to me. But I could see why his app wasn't getting downloaded or wasn't getting installed. 'cause he was, he was going through things like. Uh, you know, we are an event. We, we build an event driven framework, like, so we help process events. And so I was like, oh, okay, so you help run events like physical events.

And, but he's like, no, no, no, no. When something happens in an account that's an event and it's like, okay, we need to translate that into what your target audience understands. But it was, it was great because it was, that's where my knowledge as a marketeer could help them succeed as a developer. Um, and it, and, you know, so it was, it was one of those really fantastic crossovers that will always sit, sit with me.

Um, but we, we had a lot of fun building out some of the stuff, uh, you know, that, that we were working on together. Intuit, um, like talking a little bit about the, kind of how you enabled and helped others succeed, like how did the cultures. Gel, like what was the, Microsoft is like you say, a much bigger company, but Intuit still isn't a small company.

Like how, how were the, how were the different tech environments between the two?

Brad Spikes: Yep. I think, you know, I. I'm trying to think of the best way to describe that because like you said, you know, still large environments. I think Microsoft, during, during my tenure there and then, and I guess we're fast forwarding a little bit 'cause I went back, so there's bias, um, too, um, with, with what I learned in that after Intuit, but Microsoft was much more of like.

Swim lanes were a lot more defined, right? Like you work on this said, um, piece of, um, like your role was like much easier to, to understand like, and I think the real thing you tried to work and do is like, how do I get better at collaborating across like a large matrixed organization? Like that was a big piece of that.

Whereas Intuit, I mean you pretty much, because it was still small enough, you knew who all the key players were. Um, you knew what, you know, what they were pushed towards. But this was more of a developer marketing, um, thing, or at least at the time versus like maybe a B2C. So when you think about these small business developers who were literally running their own business, right?

Talk about ones that are wearing multiple hat, you know, because. Talk to marketing side proposition, and then you've got, you know, them also doing all the tech like them also doing all trying to find help. So piece into it. It was very clear who the decision makers were, like who you needed to work with, but from a developer audience, all those engineers, when we would even wanna make updates on the website, it was so much more about like, what are the data points, right?

Like what percentage uploaded this? Like, so how did you build like marketing that really got to the datadriven answers. And, and this was like across all of developer marketing, which we got, and I learned a ton. One reasons I. The B2B developer side from the B2C is because, man, if, if you can convince a developer, um, slash engineer, right, like to on, on the, on what it is that you're trying to solve for and how you can help them through these data-driven, you know, messaging and like how it actually adds value to your business or adds value to your business.

Um, that that's a real strong skillset to have throughout your career. So, um, it's, it's funny you made me think of it too. It is like there was a very, um, small boutique agency called Republic when I first started at, at Nokia. Like, and you, um, you guys and a lot of what you were doing together, like very much it is like, oh, why I love working with, of what refer themselves as recovering.

Um. Um, PR and comms folks that like understood the, you know, the importance of digital transformation and where things were going, but they, they approached it through that news story lens and they would always be asking me like, Brad, what's the story and why should I care? And so that was one of those things that, you know, from a headline standpoint, like very early on, and I think developers are very much that way.

Like, what's the story? Why should I care? Right? And you, you have to, clarity is kindness and you have to get to it.

Jon Busby: I, I love that clarity is kindness. Um, you know, you, you know, and actually talking about the technical audience is a challenge that, you know, I, I think we continue to have this to, to this day.

Actually. I was just the, one of the previous things I've been up to this week, uh, is, uh, is dealing with the balance between how you persuade a technical audience to achieve a goal, um, when they're not necessarily managed by the people that need to decide the focus. Um, so your product managers are the marketeers, you know, you just mentioned it with.

Having to get engineering involved to make a change to the website. Um, but you know, if you, if you want it to be data driven, you've also gotta respect their opinion, um, and try and mold the two. And I think that that is kind of real alchemy in our world. You know, moving away from just talking about KPIs, like being able to make sure you're getting the right balance between something being a true data-driven decision or a very logical decision and what you need to achieve to.

Persuade, you know, your audience or, um, whoever you're working with to, to, to get a better outcome. Like sometimes those teams, things aren't compatible. Um, and you've gotta, you've, you, you know, you've, you've gotta kind of find the right way of aligning them. That's probably a very long-winded way of saying something, but it just, it really stuck out for me.

It stuck out for me as like, I. Hey, it's, it's, it's still just as relevant today.

Brad Spikes: It, it's a hundred percent relevant. Like, and the way I think about it too is that influence without direct authority and like the ability to have that skill is so integral for anything you're doing in life, right? Like, I mean, whether we're talking about developers and engineering audiences is like.

How do you bring people along for that journey and how do you find that, you know, shared opportunity to win together? Um, that's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a skill that will, will carry you far in life. You don't always get it right, but if you have that at your core, what you're trying to do and how it's gonna help others, man, it ensure accelerate growth.

Jon Busby: Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love that phrase, influence without direct authority. Um, that's, that's really kind of the main thing we're striving for in many of our roles, isn't it? Um, so like, if we look back at some of your career, so we've talked about your time at, at, at Nokia or Nokia, depending on which country we're from here.

Um, we've talked about, uh, your time at Intuit as well, or the acquisition into Microsoft and then moving into, moving into Intuit. You, you mentioned you then moved back to Microsoft. Like what, what was the jump that made you go, you know what? I'm gonna go back to, to the, to the Big M.

Brad Spikes: Yeah, it's a good question because, you know, at the, at initially, at the time when we were, um, at Intuit, we, being me and my family, because, you know, they were along for the journey too.

It, it really wasn't on the radar. And, um, during my time at Intuit, it came where I was like. We were ready for kind of that, that next jump. And I didn't know exactly what that was. And my wife and I were like, we, like, since we traveled and lived so many different places, we kind of like made this deal as a couple where it's like every year in the new year we'd assess the following year, like right, like what we're, and it, it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna sit down and write our goals.

Um, but it was just more of like, you know, how are we feeling? Where's life at? Like, how do we yearly decided? Was it that we were ready for to, and we talked to like, do we move back to Texas? Like, are we happy here in California? The kids are getting a little bit older. Are we ready for another adventure?

And I think ultimately what we decided was we'd been in California for four or five years and we were kind of ready for a change of scenery, but we didn't feel like. It was time to go back to Texas, yet we still have too much to learn. And, um, a lot of my, um, former colleagues from my No Kid A and partners that I'd met and worked with at Microsoft the last couple of years because we were working so closely on Windows phone had been hitting me up and asking about like, Hey, you know, like there's, there's some really great roles over here.

Think you'd be a good fit. I've always kind of like, you know, pushed it to the side. Um, but then a few popped up that, and they were with, which I think is so important on a team. I knew. Like leaders I knew, um, that I was like, okay, this is an environment that I could be really set up for success. I mean, the, the caveat of all this was is it was in Washington state.

I'd been to Washington some for work. My wife had never stepped foot in the state. And so it was one of those things where, um, it was like, you know what, maybe it's time to shake a swing. And so, uh, I liked the idea too, rather than, and no slight to, you know, folks going over with the acquisition. But for me and just the way was wired, I wanted to go through the.

Formal interview process and feel like, you know, I, I really earned this role. Um, that was important to me. Um, and so when that opportunity came up, you know, leaders, I believed in, like, you know, work that I was really thought, okay, I can add value here while still continuing to grow. It was just like. Let's take a swing.

Let's see what this is like. And so like, we made the, the, um, decision at that point to go move up to Washington State and it was, you know, working on student and startup developer audiences and really get them to, um, you know, adopt, um, Azure as a cloud platform, which in those days was a much tougher sell.

Um, those, those were some of the earlier days there when, you know, the a s was on and.

We, we were a little bit further behind the curve at that point.

Jon Busby: Like you, you, you mentioned as we, you know, we are talking about this beforehand, like when you make a decision like that, you, you consulted your family. You looked to kind of some of the, you know what, I guess what I'm asking is like, what were some of the frameworks or consistencies that you built in order to make a decision to, to move on from one company and back, back to the other?

Like what, you know, was it a value-based decision? Like what gave you the clarity there?

Brad Spikes: I, I think at the end of the day, for me, it was definitely values based. It was, I, I was getting into a point in my career and I, and I still feel this way about it, is like that curiosity piece does kick in. But I'd also been in enough roles and had enough lived experiences in those roles to knew, to know better than to just chase the next shiny object.

So I was really trying hard about that over the last several years because you know, you get in some of these roles and man, and no slight to anyone doing, but it's like, my gosh, you're working your tail off, you're 80 plus hours a week. And not that I didn't have these nights and days like that and weeks and months like that at Microsoft, but.

Just being really intentional about asking yourselves those questions of like, is this a team I feel like I can be successful in? Is this a place I can continue to learn and grow? Am I gonna, you know, be excited to go to work with those folks every day? So, I mean, it was much more a values-based decision, but then it's also too like the like, Hey, do I feel like this is a place.

I can see myself five years from now because I've never been a big jumper either. Like, I mean, I, I stayed in, well into, was probably my shortest tenure and then, you know, Microsoft, my last, you know, seven years or so there. So I, one of the attractions from the larger companies for me has always been that I.

You can almost reinvent yourself, um, at these larger companies. Over time, you know, you join a new org, cultures are very different. Um, challenges are very different. I mean, you're still aligning to the, to the same mission at the end of the day, which is one that I generally believed in. Back to the values pieces, oh my gosh.

Like, you know, Intuit. Nokia, Microsoft. I've been very blessed to work at Companies, Northwest Center, you know, in much in this list too, of like where I really align with the mission and they're working to, to solve for. So that, that's probably the way I would think about those.

Jon Busby: But I, I wanna, before we go into where you are now, I want to dive into that a little bit more because it's something that I think, you know, often we get so busy we, we forget about the influence others can have on us and on developing us.

Um, you know. You've worked under you, you talked about knowing the leaders that you're working under. So, you know, you've worked under some very strong mentors, like what's, you know, can you, can you provide like one standout story that's helped to guide you, uh, and where that's from?

Brad Spikes: Good

Jon Busby: question, John.

Brad Spikes: I'm trying to think of a, a really good.

Mentorship story that I've got. I, 'cause I don't know if there's probably one standout, sorry, that I, I think it's almost like the culmination of, of the, the little pieces that I learned and, and I'd probably add to this too, is that, man, I think sometimes you learn as much about your leadership style and where you want to be from the bad ones, um, as, as much as you do the good ones.

Um, and not to say that I like, you know, had had a challenging ones, one where.

I think that some of the best advice that that mentors gave me and the way that I talk, whether I was reporting to 'em or blessed to be able to connect with them through the broader network that these companies offered, was, was really around the, the idea of it's okay. To not know the answer. Uh, I think very early on in your career, like I was much this way.

If you weren't like, kudos to you, but it's like, I, you know, yes, say yes to this and then go figure out how to do it. Um, which still is the case, but I think if you don't have the answer and the ability to ask for help, um, which early in the career is like seen as, I think a lot of folks see it as a sign of weakness, but you know, the more mature you get in your career, being able to ask for help in a way that's like, Hey, and you.

Solution oriented about it, right? Like, I'm not sure I know the right direction to go here and you know, and I've built out these three different ways that I think are the right way to solve this problem. Any feedback? Like, can you help me on that? Like if you can get to that point, because you're still kind of saying like, at the end of the day, and I don't really know, I could use a little help and guidance.

I think that part, having the humility to. Not have it all figured out or feel like you do, you're also giving yourself a little bit of a hall pass. Um, but at the same time too, you know, that's where these folks are, you know, your leaders should be, is removing roadblocks, giving that strategic guidance so that you can make the right choice.

Jon Busby: Yeah, I think, I think, you know, that's great advice by the way. I'm not sure I would wanna work in a company. Uh, that didn't value people admitting when they were wrong over, when they were, you know, 'cause I think that just, that would build a very toxic culture. But the, you know, you, you, I, but I completely agree, like it is about finding, not, you know, making sure that you can put your hand up and say, Hey, I'm, I don't think I'm right here.

Or, um, you, the, the saying I've always built in, in the teams I've, I've created has, has been much more focused on, I, I'm always stay up all night and. Sit with you and fi and solve any problem if you, you know, if you put your hand up and say, I'm stuck, but if you try and paper, paper over the cracks and tell me everything's okay, and, um, or worse still try and pass the buck, like I'll pull you over hot coals.

Like, we will not behave like that. So, um, you know, I, I think it, I think building that culture where it's okay to be wrong, especially in today's world where everything is moving so quickly, um, I think, I think is, is, is really important. Um, so. Going onto, you know, one thing, one, one thing on that, John, if you

Brad Spikes: don't mind me just building on that.

Yeah, course. Because I love, I love what you're talking about there too, and I think it's probably a really important point that, that I left out. And it is like that accountability side of things, right? Is like being able to stop and say like, man, that's on me. I mean, you talk about the quickest way to build credibility, um, with, with, with your colleagues and.

That's on me, and here's what we're gonna do to make it right and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna lean in and, and solve that, you know, and do what needs to be like, that part is so incredibly important. And it's also to, the other part you're making me think about was the whole idea of fail fast. Um, which is like, how do you learn to, like, you know, when you make these mistakes.

My gosh. The sooner you can be accountable and say, Hey, we're gonna stop doing this because I, you know, took this on the wrong direction and like now, hey, I need your help and here's the direction I think we need to go. I think those pieces of that puzzle and like the thought process, the quicker you can get across that chasm, I think better off you'll be.

Jon Busby: Like, uh, you know, not to take us too far off topic, but we're, you know, one of the products, I'm sure you won't be surprised to me to say we're working at the moment involves ai. And I can tell you now the amount of times we have gone, Hey, that wasn't quite the right decision. We made a few, you know, six months ago now we need to make a different one.

Like it almost a daily occurrence. Um, and all I've really been telling the teams is. Let's just take an aviation approach to this. Like we are, none of us are wrong. Just how do we make sure we make a better decision next time? Um, I think, you know, I think you, you've gotta try and remove, make it psychologically safe for people to, to, to fail fast.

So, yeah, couldn't agree more talking about impact and, and social good and all that kind of stuff. Let's move on to your current, your current role, Brad, uh, where you are at Northwest Center. Like how is it, you know, I'm really intrigued 'cause. Every, I'm gonna say every five to 10 years. Having spent the last nearly 20 years in tech, I, I get this kind of slight little lich.

Um, so, you know, I'm not, I dunno where it is in my body, but there's a little lich that just sits there and says, why, you know, you are helping. Companies that make black boxes with blinking lights on, sell their blinking lights to other people that want that, that make black boxes like the, the whole tech thing.

Sometimes when you go down that little cynical roll road just feels like, what are we actually doing? Are we really making the world a better place? And that sounds like a big cliche thing as well for a Silicon Valley startup to say. But like, you know, occasionally I fall down that little rabbit hole and say, what, what am I doing here?

Wouldn't it be great to be doing some social good? So. You know, Brad, I'm really interested to know, like how, how have you found that transition? Um, and secondly, how has it felt as you've gone through that? I. Um, like, you know, does it, I'm, I'm sure it does make you excited every day, but like, how do you balance some of that with the progress that tech companies made before, especially in a, in a world now that's now so surrounded by ai?

Brad Spikes: It's a good one. I mean, when, when I first made the decision to, to, to go there, you know, was blessed with the opportunity to go there, it was. It was definitely that whole thought process that you and I have been talking about was going through my head, you know, is this the right place? How am I gonna fit in here?

And I consulted there for about three months. Um, first working for a former leader that I used to work for at Microsoft who had told me, um, like when I, um, had done a reflection post on LinkedIn, what I was thinking about next and was, was literally kind of talking about how like, I think I might go down a different, different route completely.

And she reached out to. Um, it was, it was wonderful to catch up with her, you know, and I, and I, it been years since I'd worked with her at Microsoft and she was sharing with me what they were doing, um, at, at Northwest Center. And it was one of those things where you have that conversation and it's kind like, wow, it's great to connect, but I just don't really see how I fit.

It was kinda, you know, like how, you know, hope we can stay in touch, right? Like one of those types of conversations where, where it's wonderful but you don't really think it's leading to anything. And then she'd sent me a, uh, an email about a week later and was like, here's the top 10 reasons I think you're making a mistake and you should be here.

And, um, I'm, I'm reading through this and, and like, you know, I'm so grateful for sending this, but I'm reading through this list. I can't argue with a single thing on this list. This actually makes a ton of sense. Um, and so ended up consulting there for about three months, working more specifically on this commercial printing company that I mentioned earlier.

But they didn't really have a, um, a, a digital footprint, so to speak. Right. Like most of their were like relationships in the Pacific Northwest. And so my thing was, you know, how do I come in, build a tech stack, end to end, have an e-commerce presence, like build a brand, like think about what go to market looks like, who's our audience that we're gonna be targeting?

So all these things I've worked on and all these disparate roles, we're now like in a place that I could do all this together. And as I'm going through this consulting piece, I'm like, oh my gosh. I can't believe I was so quick to, to discount that, and that, that's probably some other advice that, I mean, I give to, to my kiddos who are still young and don't wanna hear it from me, but maybe this is documented for posterity and they'll listen to it someday.

Um, but it, it was really around the idea of, you know, if you don't know, like. It's, it's dip your toe in the water, a three month consulting gig. Like what? It would start at like, not a bad idea if you don't really necessarily know what's next. I mean, you need something anyway, or I did to, you know, keep the, keep, keep the fires burning to, you know, like really go out and learn new things.

But so as that started to mature over the course of those three months, you know, and I'm working more on this, I'm like, oh my gosh. I can add value here. Like there is so much opportunity in these social enterprise. It's not even just this one, but the other ones that, that we have, and I'm leaning into the marketing side of it with some of the, the pre-existing businesses.

And it's interesting just being completely vulnerable. Here you go in a place with at, at Microsoft and other companies that I've, you know, been fortunate enough to work at or like this as well, where it's. Sometimes you go into some of these big meeting rooms and the things that are going on and there's a little bit of imposter syndrome.

You're like looking around, you're hearing some of the stuff coming out of people's mouth and you're like, man, do I belong in here? And right. And then you ultimately, like, you know, you, you, you just, you know, get the courage to speak up and do your work and, and you realize you do. But like now I'm in a place where there's not as many of those voices in the room and, and you feel like the, the, the strong, you know, weight, uh, and the accountability of those decisions, even more so.

This company, you know, doesn't have the, the luxury of all of those resources or all that time or, you know, the, the, the larger, um, you know, um, accounts to, to account, you know, to, to cover some of these things. And so the weight is there, but then there's also this. Um, breath of fresh air around when I make a decision, like more often than not, like, you know, I had the support of my peers and you just go, right, like now.

And it's not to paint like it's all roses too. Like there's still plenty of days where you're reminding yourself and, and, and, and my boss would say this and, and uh, and I love her for it. She's like, Brad, on those rough days, just remember. It's for the kids. This is about the ones with disabilities and like all that.

And so, and I guess that's kind of maybe back to the question that you were asking too. All those other places I've worked at have really strong missions that are really about, you know, supporting, enabling the success of others. But you are very close to it here. Than I've ever been. Um, and, you know, and having my, my son, um, on the disability side has had some real challenges like early in his life with dyslexia and dys, you know, fortunate that I've got a, you know, an incredibly, um.

Wise wife, a much smarter than me, um, that noticed some of these things early and had, you know, got him into the right schooling and we were, you know, fortunate to have the resources and you, and you see just the progress that can be made with those types of programs when you get 'em into it early. And we'd always told her, so I was like, you know, when I actually had time, like someday to get into a, a place CareerWise where.

Um, um, or past my career where I can just, you know, donate my time and give back. This world is where I want to spend my time. And so then now you're in a place where it's like, I'm getting a paycheck and I'm close enough to help this and I'm getting to learn new skills and, you know, I'm being able to support and help through the things that I've learned to date.

It's like that, that's very rewarding in that sense.

Jon Busby: Yeah, I know, I know exactly what you like. I can tell you the moment when I'd always question myself in tech, uh, when it was, whenever I saw one of my friends who, and she, um, she has an OBE now, um, which means, means she's been recognized by our sovereign.

Um, so she, she was recognized by our queen, but she would talk about the stuff she was doing out in, um, you know, different countries helping with. You helping with goals, things like nutrition and, you know, in disaster struck zones, and you'll kind of sit there and say, well, I'm, I'm helping a laptop manufacturer sell 10% more.

Laptops. This, you know, it just felt so empty and so unauthentic, I would say. Um, you know, it just, it just didn't feel like, hang on, is this the best? Is this, is this my best contribution to society? So, you know, it, it does make me always wonder like, how can you, how can you blend the, blend, the two, um, know, actually talk, you know, talking about that and intention, you know, being intentional with all of our time, like some.

You know, some large tech companies do try and blend those two worlds. Like Salesforce have the famous 1% pledge, um, 1% time, 1% equity, 1% of revenue or profit. One of the two. Um, the, like, what, what have you seen like. I guess out in the tech space, have you seen any, any good ways that they've been able to blend those two worlds together?

Um, that's been a win-win for both, both the charity and the, and the impact sector and for the tech company.

Brad Spikes: Yeah. Um, I, I would say, um, yes to all the above. Again, like I. Very blessed to work in organizations, um, that have a genuine commitment to giving back. I mean, Microsoft's phenomenal with that, right?

And, and like most, um, not all employees like have that mindset too because it's just a genuine part of the culture there. And so, um, that, I mean, that was always refreshing, you know, and something I never took for granted there. 'cause it was very like front of mind and intentional in the. Intuit very similar.

Um, Nochi is the same way. I, I don't have specific examples, but I know that I stuck around those places because that was again, like really a core part of, of my value set. And so being at places where you felt that commitment to, you know, community to others like. Yes to, to all the above. And like, you know, you're even making me think about like some of the, like how you connect the selling the widgets and raising this 10% with like the giving back.

Like I think that's the part of like the developer marketing that always drove me to it. And the B2B side, right, is 'cause you have these small companies that are just fighting like mad to get above board and, and be successful. And when they're coming to you trying to understand like, hey, like I need like documentation on this API or like where are the, um, you know, where's this, or.

Being able to help them be successful through those different things is like that, that was closer to it. Um, I would just say that what I'm doing now is probably even more so.

Jon Busby: Yeah. Com Completely agree. So we, we've gone on quite a journey today, haven't we, Brad, from your initial career starting in, in Nokia.

Um, learning, you know, falling into social media and influencer marketing acquired by Microsoft into init for developer marketing, which by the way is a huge rabbit hole. I love going down that rabbit hole. It's one of my favorite.

Brad Spikes: We did great work with you guys. Y'all were, y'all were awesome in that. It was, it's good to go there.

Jon Busby: Yeah. Uh, it's, it's not just, not just the Intuit piece, but how you, you know, how you influence, uh, US technical folk, uh, back to Microsoft and of course the Northwest Center. So it's been like you have been in some. Absolutely fantastic organizations, like for a pe one piece of advice to give our listeners to our aspiring tech marketeers navigating their careers out there, um, you know, through this uncertainty with AI at the moment through this need to want to work all the hours.

Um, like what advice would you give them about when to kind of, when to pause and went to pivot,

Brad Spikes: you know. I, I think probably the, the, in its purest and simplest form is just get outta your own head. Like, which is like, I mean, I'm, I'm a little bit hypocritical of saying it 'cause I, I'm there on a regular basis.

But if you can find a way, um, to be grateful, um, for what you have and step back and have some perspective for me, I mean, that quiet time like. Get up that extra 30 minutes early. I promise it's not gonna kill you. Like, spend a little time for me. Like I just, I've got a little gratitude journal and like, I literally writing and it sounds super corny and cheesy about doing it, but like,

Jon Busby: hey, I, I do the same.

Like, I think this is people, people like down, I think, I think, you know, everyone thinks, oh, that's a bit kind of funny that you do that. I do the same thing every day. Um, and in fact, actually, if you've not read, sorry to go back to Big Tech and interrupt you there, Brad, there's a great book called, uh, search Inside Yourself.

Um, and it's, and it's written by, there's one class at Google this, this guy used to teach, um, which was how to be Mindful and it, but it's. That book completely changed my mindset when it came to this stuff. Like we talk about gratitude journaling, and I do another, i, I do journaling as well and, and, uh, meditation and from time to time, and this, what they did with this is they looked at the science behind it and said, like, these behaviors, this is like, this is the impact that it has.

Like by showing you like CT scans before and after, like how it's. How it's increased the knowledge center of your brain or how it's, you know, reduced your heart rate or all this kinda stuff. There's like, there's so much science behind it and I just, I just feel like it's one of the few things that we can all control that can make a difference.

Um, so yeah, you really struck a chord there, Brad. Apologies.

Brad Spikes: No, I'm glad. I mean, it is cool. We'll have to trade notes on some of this, but, um, a after the fact, but I mean, it is, and it, it's something anyone can do. Like it literally, like you don't have to go read, you know, this book or watch this podcast or just get outta your own head.

Write these things down. And I think what's really cool about it, I'm curious of your experience, but it's just like, oh my gosh. Like you can look back at that six months from now and you look back at like historically of the things that maybe you were stressed about, you're thankful for like that, that art of journaling and just putting a few notes of gratitude doesn't have to take more than five minutes.

And then you look back, then you're like, you know what? It's pretty good. Like these things always work out. Never how you plan them mind, mind you. But they do work out. So I think that's probably a big piece of the other one. I would say just advice wise, like on that one, it's like you, you networks pivoting a change, all those types of, or pivoting into like something else would be and seek counsel from people that maybe you wouldn't normally seek counsel from.

I think there's a lot of like confirmation bias and you surround yourself with people that. Know you too well that you, you, you know, may, you know, unconsciously be biased because, you know, the way they're gonna respond is gonna be more aligned with what you wanted to do anyway. But, you know, having that, you know, you know, um, board of mentors that you can reach out to and bounce things off of and get those different perspectives is just, I, oh, it's so important.

Like, when I made a few transitions, I realized like. That Board of Mentors isn't as strong as it needs to be and like, you know, I was very intentional about like connecting and finding a lot those folks kind of,

Jon Busby: yeah. No, it's a great piece of advice there, Brad. It's been a pleasure having you on the tech marketing podcast today and going on that, going that journey together.

So I'm gonna say thank, thank you for joining me. Uh, hope to have you back at, at some point in the future with another life lesson. And I think we're definitely gonna need to trade notes on some of our, uh, morning or evening routines depending on when you journal. But it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for joining me on the Tech Marketing podcast.

Brad Spikes: Ah, thank you so much for the time, John. It was a pleasure catching up with you, sir.